VR v2.0

[VS 5.0Participant Perth WAVE SSV Z Series M6 View build HERE Member since: March 31, 2015 Posts: 118]

I might have missed it somewhere, but is this getting engineered ?

[sands vsParticipant vs commodore View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 619]

Yes it is mate

[AndrewParticipant View build HERE Member since: November 4, 2015 Posts: 14]

G’day all, just joined up especially to ask about this build as we were discussing a similar concept over on the JC forum.

 

If this car is to be registered in Victoria, which is now under the NCOP, how are you getting around the maximum capacity limits specified in “NCOP3 Section LA Engines”:

Maximum weight for a VS Commodore would be 1477kg (I think) so the maximum engine capacities that can be approved would be:

Normally Aspirated: 1477 x 5 = 7385cc (450.7ci)
Forced Induction: 1477 x 3 = 4431cc (270.4ci)

As the supercharged LSA engine is 6162cc (376ci) capacity, which is way over the NCOP limit of 4431cc, how are you getting around the limits?

 

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Engineer is sorting it  how I don’t know TBH

 

There is is no way a commodore is 1400kg. My SS turned the scales at 3600lb on the nose. So around 1600kg

[AndrewParticipant View build HERE Member since: November 4, 2015 Posts: 14]

Thanks for that, the weight is taken from the factory figures for the heaviest sedan variant for that model, I asked about weighing my own car but was told no because it’s too easy to add weight and up the capacity.

 

Even at 1600kgs (x3) that still only allows you a maximum of 4.8L supercharged, so I still can’t work out how he’s able to approve a 6.2L supercharged V8?

 

I don’t mean to be argumentative (apologies if it sounds that way), I would just love to find a way to get around those limits myself, but I’ve been told that the table pictured above is gospel and I’m not allowed a cubic centimetre over.

 

I know about the ICV loophole, where you do not have to comply with the NCOP for Light Vehicle Mods, but then you do have to comply with all the current ADRs. Not such a big deal for a later model car but I’m dealing with ’70s and ’80s models so a lot of extra work.

 

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

There are a few loop hole. Some engineers are comfortable using them others are not.

 

Engineer is is currently doing an LSA into a VN which is at his shop. So I’ll basically copy what he does. But do it all my self so I’m saving $$$

Hoping to have conversion and glide in my possession by end of next week. Engine hopefully not long after. 

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

As I think I have mentioned its certainly my experience that there are variations engineer to engineer..

This thing is going to be a weapon, keep the updates coming

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

That’s it.

Just waiting on parts now really. Been pretty busy at home of late.

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

That table above has 1 major word that sticks out

 

RECOMMEND maximium engine

 

how does a 1880kg GTS have a 6.2L supercharged engine

 

how do harrop, yells terra, vortech, the list goes on and on sell there blower kits and still remain legal for road use on all cars from every Holden commodore, ford the list is endless as next to nothing would pass that weight to engine CI rate above

 

what about jaguar F types coupe with 5L supercharged engine weighting 1665kg

or merc E63 AMG S with a 5.5L twin turbo weighing 1795kg or the SL63 Amg same engine but 20kg lighter again

 

factory cars on paper don’t comply with the above table

 

not to mention Iv seen LSA engines engeneered in cars like Toranas and Gen 1 Commodores like VB-VK That are lucky to weigh 1300kg so there is ways around it

 

what at about old school hot rods with blowen 400ci engines small blocks in them that people build all the time, they are all engineenered and sometimes lucky to weigh a tonne

 

vic has all these that I have listed so there is a way around it

[AndrewParticipant View build HERE Member since: November 4, 2015 Posts: 14]

And I’m happy to hear it, but what IS the way around it? I really want to know. Everybody keeps telling me there is a way around it, but whenever I’ve asked an engineer I get the same story, refer to the table.

 

BTW, vehicle manufacturers don’t have to comply with a COP for “modified vehicles” as their vehicles aren’t modified, but they are subject to destructive testing which wouldn’t be too popular with most resto guys!

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Andrew wrote:

And I’m happy to hear it, but what IS the way around it? I really want to know. Everybody keeps telling me there is a way around it, but whenever I’ve asked an engineer I get the same story, refer to the table. BTW, vehicle manufacturers don’t have to comply with a COP for “modified vehicles” as their vehicles aren’t modified, but they are subject to destructive testing which wouldn’t be too popular with most resto guys!

How does Harrop offer factory warrenty then when they do blower kits?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Andrew wrote:

but what IS the way around it? I really want to know. Everybody keeps telling me there is a way around it, but whenever I’ve asked an engineer I get the same story,

I would be finding someone who has got around it and go to their engineer.

[capssyParticipant Pro touring calais View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 178]

likeing the looks of this with the ncop side of it the weight to power ratio is more of a guideline than actual written in stone rules as the engineer has to work to adrs as well he can take into account brakes chasis modifications etc to make up for the lower weight but alas it is up to if the engineer is confortable signing it off because if the shit hits the fan it may bite him in the arse. the engineer who signed off my car had the opposite drama with a patrol with an lsa because he was concerned the car was to heavy for that size engine (patrol was previously engineered for a duramax) haha

on a side note cav have you still got the original ss seats from this and do you want to sell them at all

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea in my case my engineer really wasn’t concerned too much with any particular thing more how the whole package worked, so brakes/suspension/steering etc.  In my case I had to do the swerve and brakes fade tests so his view was it would show up there if there was an issue.  Power wise I remember him saying “Gary I remember the day when 400hp was a lot, then it became 500, then 600.  I am now at a point where the amount of power doesn’t concern me as long as everything is modified to cope”

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

capssy wrote:

likeing the looks of this with the ncop side of it the weight to power ratio is more of a guideline than actual written in stone rules as the engineer has to work to adrs as well he can take into account brakes chasis modifications etc to make up for the lower weight but alas it is up to if the engineer is confortable signing it off because if the shit hits the fan it may bite him in the arse. the engineer who signed off my car had the opposite drama with a patrol with an lsa because he was concerned the car was to heavy for that size engine (patrol was previously engineered for a duramax) haha on a side note cav have you still got the original ss seats from this and do you want to sell them at all

Exactly right mate. An LSA in a patrol would be awesome out in the bush.

Dont have the seat. Swapped them into my SS so I could sell that conplete

[capssyParticipant Pro touring calais View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 178]

cava454 wrote:

Exactly right mate. An LSA in a patrol would be awesome out in the bush. Dont have the seat. Swapped them into my SS so I could sell that conplete

yeah mate the patrol is just awsome haha and cool on the seats just thought id ask

 

[Dan811Participant SE Melbourne02 Monaro M6 LS1 View build HERE Member since: March 4, 2015 Posts: 124]

cava454 wrote:

How does Harrop offer factory warrenty then when they do blower kits?

Harrop offer a warranty on the DRIVELINE, not the entire car. If something goes wrong with your power windows, harrop aren’t going to be the ones fixing it.

Vehicle manufacturers don’t have to comply with COP because the regulations governing safety requirements and equipment mean they are the ones responsible for making the car safe, regardless of what engine combo is in it. They have to design a car around the engine in some ways, when it comes to crumple zones, how much weight is in the engine, where exactly the engine is positioned and whether the chassis and suspension balance compliments the setup.

Tuners and most of us here don’t have the same responsibilty/motivation, so it makes sense that there is some sort of governance on modification. Some engineers are willing to see reason, especially (like in Gary’s case) when a lot of time and thought has gone into the handling, grip and braking as well as the power, but I imagine most just want to cover their own asses.

I’m not saying I like it or agree with it, but It makes sense considering they govern just about everything else we do…

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

So not a lot has happened car wise over the past 2-3 weeks.

Misses has been ready to pop and last Sunday she gave birth to our first born Lily.

So been pretty pre occupied. But when I’ve had a chance I’ve sneaked out side and been having a play. On the list was the VL manual rack. I changed over the rack ends to new VR units and re packed it all with grease and some new tie rods.

I’ll be pulling it back out to give it some black still also.

I’ve also has to remove the steering column so I could pressed the VL end of the intermediate shaft onto the VR top half. So it’s all apart and hopefully I can sneak out and get some new unis and get it all pressed together. Big thanks to Vsmanta for steering me in the right direction.

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[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Congrats mate, kids are seriously the best 

 

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

Finally found this thread. Don’t know why it took so long. Glad you got the steering shaft sorted.

Also, I was the third person willing to admit I was eyeing this shell off on Ebay haha.

Only I didn’t have the space at the time.

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