Lakeside Track / Sprint Day – Second Go & Third Go – OK My Track Day Thread!

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

ok.. i’m pullng the trigger on the whiteline adjustable bars! car is at shop now.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Are they like I have, with different holes so you can swap positions?  I have one of those for the rear that only arrived after I had the ass end back in the car.  Is it possible to swap it without dropping the sub frame?  Looking forward to seeing how the change translates to times and feel on the track, love this thread!!

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

yep, the blade ones. unsure if you need to drop the sub frame. mechanic made it sound easy, will let you know.

also ditching the solid rear rotors for DBA T2 vented slotted rotors… i’m sure they’ll work greart when compared to the solids… http://www.dba.com.au/products/street-performance/t2-slot/

considering oil catch can (but the motor is 200,000km old already) and a surge tank (stutters on track when gets below 1/3 of tank).

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

You think maybe its worth adding a brake bias valve?  Pretty cheap and simple thing to add, and would let you dial in the front/rear brake balance to suit as needed.  Just a thought?

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

I do remember you mentioning it before in my old “VS Brake Upgrades” thread, will keep it in mind… Next event i’m going to a Paul Stokell track training day, so hoping to get some tips on car upgrade roadmap… need to get a few more track days under my belt before I start messing with things too much. I’m sure it’ll take a while just to find the settings for the swaybars I like best.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[JabaParticipant Perth, WAVZ Senator View build HERE Member since: February 18, 2015 Posts: 103]

What sort of wheel alignment are you running mate? Just a regular neutral one or increased camber castor toe etc?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

This is my bias adjuster, I put mine attached to the side of the ABS unit.  They are legal on a road car as long as you can’t adjust it from the driving position.  Very simple device, just goes in series anywhere along the brake line to the rear.  My son when he was racing said its one of the big things on a race car when you start getting near the edge (as you do on a track), so you can have the balance to suit your style when braking.  As I say just a thought, great thread!!

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Jaba just running standard suspension settings, but I have the camber kit in the rear to fix the IRS up.

Once I get the swaybars dialled in, i’ll look for something else to play with

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[Phire aka GmfanParticipant VictoriaVT LS1 Wagon View build HERE Member since: March 3, 2015 Posts: 105]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>VRSenator065 did you flare your lines off car or on car for bias adjuster? What tool did you use for flaring? Borrowed a cheap tool from neighbour but it took quite a few goes to get a decent flare. The die doesn’t locate on the clamp bit very well and flares kept being asymmetrical.</p>

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

ok booked in for track training day (with my own car) on Oct 15th with Paul Stokell’s driving events company, at Queensland Raceway / Willowbank. Hopefully can get them to help me with swaybar settings..

http://drivingevents.com.au/performance-driver-training/track-and-training-days

• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by  SSEN8R VS #1081. Reason: typo

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Phire aka Gmfan wrote:

VRSenator065 did you flare your lines off car or on car for bias adjuster? What tool did you use for flaring? Borrowed a cheap tool from neighbor but it took quite a few goes to get a decent flare. The die doesn’t locate on the clamp bit very well and flares kept being asymmetrical.

Yea mate, I custom made every brake line on my car front to back in stainless. I moved my ABS down to where the battery usually sits and moved battery to the boot.  I used my uncles flare tool, worked a treat.  This is it.

 

Apologies for the thread hijack buddy!!!

• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

so got the rear rotors upgraded, and got the whiteline swaybars all round… see my build thread in my sig for more details… will got for a cruise now and see how it goes. There’s four settings on the front swaybar, and I’m on 3rd hardest, so still got one more if needed.

GARY – you can get the rear swaybar out without dropping the IRS frame, but the mechanic says it’s bit of a b*tch.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Go track training day at Willobank (Queensland Raceway) on thursday… Been trying to get the car sorted, but still got concerns about brakes and cooling. I think the leak is fixed (turns out a metal plug on the master was leaking a little), but the 6 month old fenix aluminium radiator is slightly leaking…. luckily the car sits at 1/3 hot on the track, so i’ll be watching that guage intensely and checking my brake fluid regularly…

also worked out how to stop my power steering fluid coming out of the breather in the cap… rag and cable tie.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[Phire aka GmfanParticipant VictoriaVT LS1 Wagon View build HERE Member since: March 3, 2015 Posts: 105]

Where’s the radiator leaking from? Possible electrolysis? Have you checked for stray current?

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

nah I haven’t as all you can see is a bit of green coolant coming out of the aluminium radiator – mechanic says he’s getting me a new one on warranty… went to top it up and it only took ~200ml…

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

UPDATE – Queensland Raceway Track Day 15/10/15

So yesterday I took the VS Senator out again for another thrash, this time around Queensland Raceway (Willowbank) with Paul Stokell’s Driving Events company. I had signed up for a ‘track training day’, which I thought would be good as I have not done QR before….

Showed up around 8am, got sorted in a pit bay, unloaded the car, handed in my paperwork and went to driver briefing. The schedule was 3 groups doing 20 mins stints, with three in the morning on the Clubman Circuit and three in the arvo on the Sprint Circuit (QR has 4 circuits). [they don’t do the full paper clip circuit due to too much high speed breaking for street cars]

There was a fair spread of cars too, again I think I had the cheapest – VF GTS (w/ Walkinshaw pack 400rwkw), BMWs, Audi, Toyota GT86 supercharged, Alfa Romeo, a couple of Radical Racecars, a couple of real full on race cars, Lamboghini, Skyline GTR (2008), AMG, Ford Mustang Boss 504(?), VF SS Ute, BF XR6, even a micro style race car and proper touring race car with massive team semi trailer…

So the track day was sold as 1 instructor for two cars, but that was a croc (tho one was missing due to death in family). I wasn’t really too phased by this but at twice the price ($400) of day with BMW car club, don’t think I’ll be going back. You do get lunch, snacks, coffee (from a real coffee van) included…

No timing devices were supplied, unlike BMW car club days, so I don’t know what my lap times were and there was a fair bit of overtaking. Atleast QR is alot easier to overtake a slow car than Lakeside due to wide track with plenty of straight sections, and the slow drivers were good at watching their mirrors.

I was a bit worried that 20min stints might be a bit too much for the Senator, but she did pretty good. I did keep the late breaking til later in the afternoon though.

I’ve had plenty of brake dramas previously but albeit just the tiniest ever sign of brake fluid leaking from between the VS booster and spacer (to fit VT master), they went sweet. Radiator held up too with temp only getting to half.

I topped up the oil a bit too much on purpose, so I was getting some smoke out of the rear end through a S turn, which did stop after first stint.

The Hankook RS3’s i’m really happy with – you do need to get some heat into them first, but even if they are squealing they still have more grip. They did give a speel about pumping the tyres up to 44psi but I only put it to 38psi as they are meant to be track tyres.

The new swaybars worked sweet (adjustable up front, upgraded at rear). I was a little worried that I would unsettle the car, make it tail happy, as it previously was balanced pretty well. There is a slight click when changing from hard right to hard left… I still got one more setting on the front, but I think i’ll leave it as is until I do another Lakeside track day.

I have been practising my heel/toe on the road after bending to accelerator over and I was getting it going sweet – was impressing myself. Definitely became body memory by the end of the day.

Paul Stokell’s company had a Radical Race Car that you could pay to do some laps in with an instructor… so at one stage I was chasing down a radical race car… I don’t care how crap driver you are, if you have me chasing you down, and your not going to let me pass, I’m going to sit right on your arse and pressure you…. so I chased this thing around for about 3/4 of a lap. At the low speed corner before coming onto the main straight it’s better to do the late apex race line, but the dumb driver took the normal line, so I was on their arse coming out of the corner, they tried to get on the gas too early and spun the thing right in front of me… almost shat myself, but I stomp on the brakes and we missed easily.

Session 5 (of 6) I got one of the instructors to jump in with me – he gaves me some good tips about keeping it smooth and how much speed to carry through the sweeper at the end of the straight. He didn’t like me braking while turning, but I thought it was working… he said stomp on em harder but brake only in the straight line. Disappointingly no timing device so who knows if it worked but smoother is always going to be faster. Then when he said to drop him in the pits after 15mins of laps, smoke started coming out of the rear end… went into the pits and the power steering wasn’t working when trying to reverse in. Popped the bonnet and it was obvious that I cooked the power steering pump, as smoke was coming off it and fluid was everywhere. I packed up while I let the power steering pump cool down and it was way too hot to get ya hand or face near it.

As on other track days I have had heaps of power steering fluid spill out of the power steering reservoir cap and stain the heat matting under the bonnet, I put a bit of rag and a cable tie to stop it spraying out… which seemed to work a treat but I wondered if it actually caused the issue by making it hotter.

After the car cooled down, I went to chop off the cable tie and the cap with rag just come straight off. The dip stick on the bottom of the cap and the metal locking mechanism was missing, melted off? – must been inside the power steering pump, not good. There was still fluid in the power steering reservoir, so that was good. I grabbed a pair of scissors to see if I could fish out the broken dip stick but nup it must have been stuck in deeper or chewed up.

So as the cap wouldn’t lock on anymore, I used the trusty rag and cable tie solution again. Amazingly the power steering still worked except at walking speed it’s crap, so I got home no worries….

In hindsight, I think the power steering fluid boiled. I may have been partially boiling it previously and it was condensing on the heat matting…. but in this case I think it popped the reservoir cap off slightly and sprayed out, as there was fluid everywhere, so it prob was smoking off the extractors. I guess the power steering pump just doesn’t like been spun up to 5000rpm consistently, and makes sense why the fluid gets so hot.

I think i’ll need a power steering cooler before the next track day… Then I remembered that even though I have a manual, I have an auto radiator, so I have a spare auto trans cool in built in my radiator. From memory I’m pretty sure that power steering fluid is the same as auto trans fluid, so should work a treat… just need to get some piping made up.

Engine now has over 200,000km on the clock but the engine didn’t miss a beat!

Queensland Raceway VS Lakeside – QR is like cruising around on a flat highway in the middle of a oval, which is good but there is no white knuckle moments and feels almsot too safe when compared to Lakeside. This does allow you to push the car right to the edge of the track. I only got to 130ish at the end of the main straight, compared to 190 at Lakeside. Even the VF GTS with 400rwkw only got 190 at the end of the straight. I like Lakeside better, but it’s also the most deadliest track in Australia (most deaths of any track). So at Lakeside the walls are too close and at QR they are too far away, hehe… I may go back again, but for doing laps, Lakeside is the track.

Overall good fun day, and although I didn’t get lap times, this gave me less pressure on getting good times and gave me more time to mess around with things, like the heel / toe and race lines.

I’ve got some gopro footage that I have not watched yet, so hopefully will make a youtube clip up.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Next track day is at Lakeside on Nov Fri 13th with BMW car club, then track arvo on Sat 21st with HSV car club.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Mate so great reading your write ups, I love them, I can almost imagine being there 

Sounds like your having a blast and really developing, must be fun as.  Not sure I would have been too happy not having timing either, must make it pretty difficult to see whats working and what doesn’t.  The braking in a straight line thing is something my lad got into me about, also he bangs on about its very important how you actually apply the brake, hard at first then modulate it off, tbh it looks way easier than I found it though tbh.  Someone on here who knows more about it might be able to shed more light.  I know Tim worked alot with Matt looking at the brake pedal trace to really perfect it.  With the ps pump, its a fair bit of work but if it keeps being an issue maybe consider going to an Astra electric pump?  That’s what I plan on doing one day, but I do have a nice oil cooler I am going to fit too at some stage.

As I said mate, love your write ups, please keep them coming

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

I run a 50mm thick A2A cooler for the Pwr Steer, small one on the left.

Don’t much like the idea of using the cooler in the radiator as you’re starting at a base temp of 88c…

[benkParticipant Sydney View build HERE Member since: August 23, 2015 Posts: 85]

Great write up! Melting the power steering reservoir seems to be a common problem when tracking. Not sure if it’s all the cornering under load or pump rpm as you say. Mines a VS Calais converted to manual and had an extra external transmission cooler after the radiator one. I plumbed my power steering via the external cooler only and put a magnafine filter inline from the reservoir to the pump to try keep any stuff out of the pump.

Only done one track day at eastern creek (with the NSW BMW club) and it seemed ok there.

ive also seen people take the end tank off an old radiator and mount the end tank transmission cooler on a bit of angle bar as a budget cooler. You’d get much better cooling with ambient than radiator coolant.

 

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