Ls1 emission questions

[SLO 05LParticipant Casino Nsw07 nissan patrol wagon 3.0l cr View build HERE Member since: March 17, 2015 Posts: 38]

hey guys didn’t know whether to post here or in engine conversions so sorry if it’s in the wrong place! This is mainly for people that live in nsw but if any one knows plz chime in! Putting a ls1 into my vr caprice and wondering about maffless tuning and the legalities. At very least it will have otr intake but ideally I would like to itbs or dual plane intake manifold with throttle bodies as pictured. I know it varies state to state but wondering if anyone can shed light on this… I had a vn with a 330 stroker and when it was to be engineered it had to pass an emissions test, it did, just lol, it had a Harrop single plane manifold and a Efi hardware throttle body. Part of the catch the car had to be fitted with original pollution gear ( carbon canister etc) I’m wondering a few things.. Is the maf sensor part of ls1 emission gear or not? And, if so can any of these manifold be used without it? Has anyone successfully got these manifolds passed on their ls1 in nsw? Thanx for your time guys ????

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I do have a bit of experience having just got my LSx454 with ITB’s in a VR through full engineering here in SA.  To my knowledge, actually the emissions requirements side of it is actually the one part of car modification that is common across all states.  The IM240 test and requirements are the same. (If I am wrong with that please feel to let me know)

Basically passing emissions is all about getting a full, complete efficient burn at relatively low throttle openings.   Pretty sure I have posted the IM240 procedure in another thread somewhere, I will see if I can dig it up if you cant find it.  What you don’t want to be doing is having unburnt hydrocarbons going through the engine, so cam shaft selection if very important.  Valve overlap will kill you. As I say I got my 454 with ITB through, to me there is no reason why that manifold above wouldn’t, you will want to make sure the injectors you choose are able to be finely controlled by the ECU at very light duty cycles to match the test.  I used stock LS1 injectors, but tbh I think now with my ID750’s we would still get it through.  Needless to say the tune will almost certainly be very lean!!

With regards to crankcase venting, basically nothing can be vented to atmosphere, so catch tanks with open tops are out.  If you are running a catch can, it has to be the style that is vented into the inlet tract so that the vapor is consumed by the engine.  Catalytic converters are also critical, they will need to be new(ish) as its known they deteriorate over time, apparently the latest Euro spec ones are good, although I just used to big standard cats.

The carbon canister strictly isn’t part of engine emissions, what its about is taking fuel vapor out of the fuel tank and drawing it into the engine to be consumed rather than it going to the atmosphere out of the tank vent when the car is stopped.  So yes you will need one, in my case I used the VY style purge solenoid controlled by the ECU but connected up to a regular VR canister in its original position.

Check out my build thread, pretty sure there’s a fair bit of detail i have posted about passing emissions.  Hope at least some of that helps.

 

 

[SLO 05LParticipant Casino Nsw07 nissan patrol wagon 3.0l cr View build HERE Member since: March 17, 2015 Posts: 38]

You are a walking encyclopaedia Gary thanks mate going for another look on your thread now, would love to pick your brain one day, the knowledge u have about this sorta stuff is amazing

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Thanks mate always happy to share what I have learnt through my build. Btw its a bitch to pass, the story goes many new cars off the assembly line would fail.

 

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I have just created a new section called “technical Articles” in the general technical section with some info in there.  But if you look at this graph, you can see that the IM240 test gets its name from it being a 240 second long test on a small dyno where they attempt to measure the emissions in a “real life” type of driving scenario.  To give you an idea the dyno my tester used is 50kW max, so its done at very light throttle openings.

[MichaelParticipant VY Calais 383ci GT42 turbo. View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 208]

How much better is E85 in regards to emissions?

[SLO 05LParticipant Casino Nsw07 nissan patrol wagon 3.0l cr View build HERE Member since: March 17, 2015 Posts: 38]

Thanx for your replies guys, Gary I don’t know what the story is but the last emissions test I had done was not done on a dyno, but there was a bunch of graphs that looked similar to the one u have displayed and Michael I dunno I’d imagine it would be but not an option for me as there is none around here unless u buy it by the drum. The. Main thing I’m trying to wonder is will they just straight up say no if it’s not running a maf sensor or does it only have to meet a certain requirement, as in the graph. I remember when the stroker I had got engineered (5litre) the engineer failed it first time around before he even looked at the emission read out due to it not having a pcv valve or something on the throttle body, which I’m wondering if it’s the old version of something similar to a maf sensor. If that makes sense

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Definitely my experience is lots of things can vary slightly engineer to engineer.  What one is prepared to pass with a signature another may want testing.  As my engineer said to me at one stage, “Gary if you have an accident and hurt yourself or someone else I need to be able to stand up in a court of law and swear that I believe the car was not at fault”  Might be worth ringing a couple of approved engineers and ask their opinion.  In my case my engineer only cared about the result, not how it was achieved.  What I mean is he wanted it to pass the IM240, if I did that with maf or mafless, or a single throttle body vs 8ITB, he wasn’t fussed if that makes sense.  I do also appreciate things can change state to sate, but wasn’t it Cappsy who recently the engineer simple came out viewed the car and signed it off on the spot?  Wheras I had to do lane swerve tests, brake fade, emissions etc.

Def keep us up to date on what you find out, interesting stuff.

[MichaelParticipant VY Calais 383ci GT42 turbo. View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 208]

If a 50kw dyno was used for you Gary, how would that go with a boosted car, especially a turbo car. What RPM do they go up to?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Michael wrote:

If a 50kw dyno was used for you Gary, how would that go with a boosted car, especially a turbo car. What RPM do they go up to?

The test only goes up to a maximum of 91.2 km/h (no idea why that number btw)  and only at light throttle loads, tbh I don’t know what revs but not much.  Really doesn’t matter if its na, sc or turbo, lets say it takes 30kw to push a VR along at constant 60km/h, that is all it will need whatever engine is in it if you see what I mean.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Just came across this, some really great info in here explaining what the different gasses are, and right at the end also what adjustments to make if you fail, I have cut and pasted that below;

http://www.type2.com/library/exhaust/comix.htm

Failed the CO

Check the Mixture and Ignition Timing. Especially on VWs, over advance timing will cause high CO readings. When setting up ignition timing, mixture, and idle speed, follow the book. On Digijet Vanagons, disconnect and bypass the Idle Stabilizer when setting the timing and idle speed. Resist the temptation to “advance” the timing for performance. Also make sure both the vacuum and mechanical advance mechanisms are working properly. On Digifant Vans, Disconnect the Temperature Sensor before setting the timing. Again, resist the urge to over advance the timing. Check the O2 sensor system to ensure it is working properly. Resist the urge to adjust the Airflow box. If the O2 sensor system is working properly, it will compensate unless some one has already made a mess of things. Also check the oil, diluted oil will also cause high CO readings. Worn rings and valve guides will contribute to this also. However this will only be a problem on very tired engines. Setting the idle speed around 1000 rpm will also help keep the CO readings down.

Failed the HC

Check the ignition system first. This usually caused by an ignition miss. Then check the engine. Poorly seated valves, leaking head gaskets, or other compression problems will put the HC readings through the roof. Also check for vacuum leaks and the injector spray patterns. Remember, HC failures are usually caused by compression or ignition problems. Improper fuel distribution/vacuum leaks will cause misfires that will cause excessive HC.

Failed both CO and HC

If the HC is very high and the CO is close, you probably have an ignition/compression related problem. If the CO is very high and the HC is close, than you may only have a timing/mixture problem. Use the above procedures accordingly and you should be able to resolve your emissions failure blues. Next time, we will talk about all that infamous junk they put on our cars to control the emissions. I will explain the purpose of these devices that you can better troubleshoot your cars and also to help you decide which equipment is worth maintaining or discarding when searching for more performance. One thing to keep in mind is that much of this equipment is put on our cars because we don’t maintain them. That’s why some car manufactures are shooting for 100,000 mile maintenance intervals.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[MichaelParticipant VY Calais 383ci GT42 turbo. View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 208]

VRSenator065 wrote:

Michael wrote:

If a 50kw dyno was used for you Gary, how would that go with a boosted car, especially a turbo car. What RPM do they go up to?

The test only goes up to a maximum of 91.2 km/h (no idea why that number btw) and only at light throttle loads, tbh I don’t know what revs but not much. Really doesn’t matter if its na, sc or turbo, lets say it takes 30kw to push a VR along at constant 60km/h, that is all it will need whatever engine is in it if you see what I mean.

 

What I don’t understand is that, I could drive my car light throttle to 91.2km/h without hitting boost. So therefore wouldn’t it read my engine as a N/A motor, because the turbo is basically doing nothing.

 

[SLE355Participant View build HERE Member since: April 7, 2015 Posts: 118]

What was the cost of the emissions test?

[SLO 05LParticipant Casino Nsw07 nissan patrol wagon 3.0l cr View build HERE Member since: March 17, 2015 Posts: 38]

Great info Gary thank u so much! Met with the engineer today was good withe everything, will have to do an emissions test in Sydney, which is free to undertake

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Michael wrote:

How much better is E85 in regards to emissions?

was told you can’t use e85 at emissions. Gary can you confirm this? As e85 would make life a lot easier

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I didn’t do my test with E85, but I haven’t heard that you cant.  Happy to contact my emissions guru and find out, will post up what I hear.

[MichaelParticipant VY Calais 383ci GT42 turbo. View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 208]

I know someone who has had a e85 emissions test to pass on his blown ls1 setup.

 

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Hmmm interesting. When I briefly spoke to engineer he mentioned no

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Def varies engineer to engineer, seen/heard that alot.

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