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This topic contains 21 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of cava454 cava454 4 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #14536
    Profile photo of SouthRidge
    SouthRidge
    Participant
    Member since: May 1, 2015
    Posts: 44

    Super Cool Banana’s
    its no coincidence right
    Twin throttle, twin water to air intercooled, supercharged 5lt bunch of bananas.

    2016 is the year of going bananas for me.

    This project is a balance between the design of form and function. I wish to retain a factory designed theme and use as much of the manifold as possible whilst utilizing existing factory components from other models. The budget is set to an absolute minimum, created with minimal specialist tools. Design will be done in CAD with 3D visualizations. The completed unit is to be used in my project car. This project will form the foundation of Research and development towards a continued project using aluminium casting process.

    The final unit should not exceed the current physical size of 5lt fuel injected manifold and clear a closed bonnet. Support for fuel rails will be retained but despite this, the final application will be used for straight LPG via twin gas research throttle body’s. The snout will be driven from a factory air con drive.

    Why im going bananas – Holden’s design of the 5lt efi manifold. Its made to be a peace of art. Who ever designed it took great care in the details. The 5lt engine in its final revision was symmetrical, the ornamental covers cast in metal, flowing on towards the rocker covers of equal quality. everything was perfect. I must admit I am biased as I previously owned a 220i VT Senator, when ever i opened the bonnet I could see were the design was and were it could have gone had it not met its fate. So in respect to Holden and their efi 5lt manifold I want to make this design as though it were drafted by Holdens engineers.

    Split Banana’s – whats sweet about them?
    From a glance the manifold is obviously made from aluminium, which is great to work with and alter from the home garage. The manifold was made in several sections then lovingly welded together in what i can only explain as cut and shut process. The plenum running along the valley is generous and can be removed without ruining the port runners. The throttle inlet is on an elbow, independent to the water thermostat housing. Its design is built perfectly for a project manifold.

    This weekend i will update this post with some 3d visualizations that form the actual design I have chosen to go ahead, detailing what factory hardware ill use and what alterations will be made to the manifold  and what area’s of design i am still working on.

    Some previs renders of what i plan to do. When i finish the cad ill post of sketch views and some visualization with it dissected to show how it will go together

     

    • This topic was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Profile photo of SouthRidge SouthRidge.
    • This topic was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Profile photo of SouthRidge SouthRidge.
    • This topic was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Profile photo of SouthRidge SouthRidge. Reason: added previs renders of setup
    #14540
    Profile photo of VRSenator065
    VRSenator065
    Participant
    • Adelaide SA
    • VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)

    • View build HERE
    Member since: February 17, 2015
    Posts: 5 777
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    Nice project, what 3D CAD are you using?

    #14542
    Profile photo of SouthRidge
    SouthRidge
    Participant
    Member since: May 1, 2015
    Posts: 44

    The actual CAD generated data with Autodesk Fusion but the visualizations will be with Blender 3d.

    #14546
    Profile photo of Immortality
    Immortality
    Participant
    Member since: August 31, 2015
    Posts: 533

    Cool Banana’s, that’s a contradictory statement when it comes to the Holden 304 intake manifold unfortunately :-(

    The manifold met all the design requirements for the engine at that time but from a performance perspective it has been found lacking which is a shame because like you I would like to retain the manifold for the factory look (HSV VS Senator).

    Doing a banana style manifold based on  the LS intake manifold but using a split design using a lower intake manifold which as the runners and coolant passages and upper with the TB, plenum and runner entries.  Then you could have either an elbow or TB coming straight of the front of the intake giving a few different cold air intake options.

    I’ll follow this with interest :-)

    #14553
    Profile photo of gtrboyy
    gtrboyy
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    Member since: January 20, 2016
    Posts: 201

    There was supposed to be a plastic banana manifold come onto the market last year..saw tiny ad for it & mobile number for it it SC mag from some V6 mob cant remember who…sent them message no reply.

     

    Id be content with plastic banana if it cut heatsoak & for the weight saving.

    #14570
    Profile photo of Immortality
    Immortality
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    Member since: August 31, 2015
    Posts: 533

    Heat soak is one thing but the other is the extremely long and small diameter runners.

    I think the bananas would work much better if the runners ended where they pass over the top and the hole that currently runs through the centre of the manifold became the new plenum.

    One can only dream  :cry:

    #14577
    Profile photo of cava454
    cava454
    Moderator
    Member since: February 20, 2015
    Posts: 2 380
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    Or u just buy a single plane. ….

    #14580
    Profile photo of SouthRidge
    SouthRidge
    Participant
    Member since: May 1, 2015
    Posts: 44

    I have updated the post with some simple previs renders. Gives you the idea im going for with twin intercooling located below the ornamental covers and the charger being mounted upside down, the lower plenum removed for extra clearance. Dont stress I have done some measurements and yes the eaton m112 charger will be a tight squeeze between the runners, but incorporating the intercoolers in this area will give me opportunity to offset the runners a tad bit towards the heads. Fuel rails will be tricky but we’ll see.

    In terms of twin water cooled design i really like the jaguar aj26 v8 setup with twin intercooling.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Profile photo of SouthRidge SouthRidge.
    #14583
    Profile photo of Immortality
    Immortality
    Participant
    Member since: August 31, 2015
    Posts: 533

    Yep, that is the other option and the road I’ll most likely travel although it may well end up been a dual plane type manifold.

    One can only dream that we could (one day) have a functioning, performance based banana type manifold to suit out engines to maintain that factory look.

    #14585
    Profile photo of gtrboyy
    gtrboyy
    Participant
    Member since: January 20, 2016
    Posts: 201

    Looks good with vt style covers..will be interesting to see.

     

    Immortality…agree but will always be limitations of banana manifold on a holden but somehow partial to the damn things too.

    #14586
    Profile photo of VRSenator065
    VRSenator065
    Participant
    • Adelaide SA
    • VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)

    • View build HERE
    Member since: February 17, 2015
    Posts: 5 777
    Supporter

    Always enjoy seeing someone thinking outside the box.

    #14587
    Profile photo of cava454
    cava454
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    Member since: February 20, 2015
    Posts: 2 380
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    What’s the big deal about wanting to look standard?

    I think the concept of what you want to do it pretty cool. But that’s where it kinda stops for me.

    That jag photo above looks like an utter abortion to me. The wheel has already been invented…. :unsure:

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Profile photo of cava454 cava454.
    #14668
    Profile photo of NickVR
    NickVR
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    Member since: March 2, 2015
    Posts: 264
    Supporter

    I like the idea of this. I too like the banana manifold and stock (VT Covers) look. Hope you can make it work, purely because it’s unique and you can keep people guessing.

    #14675
    Profile photo of HDN05L
    HDN05L
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    Member since: March 2, 2015
    Posts: 289
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    +1 for your idea  :good:

    Good luck.

    #20239
    Profile photo of VN304
    VN304
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    Member since: May 6, 2016
    Posts: 18

    any updates?

    #20241
    Profile photo of SouthRidge
    SouthRidge
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    Member since: May 1, 2015
    Posts: 44

    Sorry none at this point mate. I look to carry through with this project. Just went through a year of single income (wife on meternity leave) so no time or money to play with but now im on the other side were the grass is greener and i have time and money… had to sell a few parts to get through but still have the k and still have the bannanas just. :yahoo:

    #20246
    Profile photo of Hoopstar
    Hoopstar
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    Member since: June 10, 2016
    Posts: 48

    This car used a dual plane manifold with elbow and single throttle body covered up with the gutted top of an original banana manifold…  (and a turbo to run 9.9’s)

     

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Profile photo of Hoopstar Hoopstar.
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    #20249
    Profile photo of cava454
    cava454
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    Member since: February 20, 2015
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    This car used a dual plane manifold with elbow and single throttle body covered up with the gutted top of an original banana manifold… (and a turbo to run 9.9’s)

    ask him how much extra power the dual plane made over the Bananas and you will be surprised.

    #20250
    Profile photo of Hoopstar
    Hoopstar
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    Member since: June 10, 2016
    Posts: 48

    My point is if someone wanted the stock look of the banana manifold, they could replicate what he’s done in terms of DP manifold, elbow and TB covered with a gutted banana top and stock engine covers..  :scratch:

     

    #20252
    Profile photo of cava454
    cava454
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    Member since: February 20, 2015
    Posts: 2 380
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    Well i clearly missed that point.

     

    Anyways. Aaron only made an extra 20hp over the bananas changing to that.  Hardly worth the expense and time.

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