VR Senator with LSx454

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Thanks they look good.  I have been told ET Streets aren’t actually street legal in Aus, do you know if these are?

Link for them btw https://www.toyotires.com/tire/pattern/proxes-tq-DOT-drag-radial-tires

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[sands vsParticipant vs commodore View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 619]

That install is really really neat got to be happy with that

[MarzellaParticipant MarzellaVS SS View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 59]

VRSenator065 wrote:

Thanks they look good. I have been told ET Streets are actually street legal in Aus, do you know if these are? Link for them btw https://www.toyotires.com/tire/pattern/proxes-tq-DOT-drag-radial-tires

Cant see why not they have a load and speed rating…. probably stand out less than an et street… they get pretty good reviews. Could always give vehicle standards a call 1300 882 248

https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/transport-travel-and-motoring/motoring/vehicles-and-registration/vehicle-standards-and-modifications/wheels-and-tyres

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

sands vs wrote:

That install is really really neat got to be happy with that

Thanks mate, I am very happy with it.  It will do for a while, its lovely to use, and i think looks nice and neat.

All I am thinking now is maybe at some stage fitting the leather manual HSV gear knob I am hopefully getting from FLI355 onto it.  Maybe even make the reverse lock out knob black.  I was then thinking of changing the power/economy button in the console to momentary and using that for the trans break.  Not 100% sure on that yet.  Really just want to drive it and enjoy it and make sure its all reliable etc

Marzella wrote:

Cant see why not they have a load and speed rating…. probably stand out less than an et street… they get pretty good reviews. Could always give vehicle standards a call 1300 882 248 https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/transport-travel-and-motoring/motoring/vehicles-and-registration/vehicle-standards-and-modifications/wheels-and-tyres

Cheers, will do.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

So I am guessing most people on here know but this Saturday is the S.A. Cruise for Charity run.  It starts with a car display at Glenelg at 2:30 for a couple of hours, then a cruise ending with another display at Elizabeth Oval.  If anyone from here is at it please come up and say hi

[JabaParticipant Perth, WAVZ Senator View build HERE Member since: February 18, 2015 Posts: 103]

Unrelated comment mate, I looked through your thread but couldn’t find anything.

Where abouts have you mounted your fuel system? And are the pumps noisy where you placed them?

[pir4teParticipant Mallala640 HP hyper-cruising SS-V Flagonwagon View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 154]

VRSenator065 wrote:

So I am guessing most people on here know but this Saturday is the S.A. Cruise for Charity run. It starts with a car display at Glenelg at 2:30 for a couple of hours, then a cruise ending with another display at Elizabeth Oval. If anyone from here is at it please come up and say hi

How’s your air con coping   ? Are you running OEM pump?

It’s 38° here in Sydney metro avg off-idle speed 18kph in a 2100kg black wagon  Waeco flat out to keep whites cool.

Before ethanol and VVT I used to feel pangs of guilt dealing with dead butterflies, bees and stuff off my windshield coz ma 700 CFM V8 CO2 generator, now they stop and blow me kisses [before I spray them with BugOff] 

Naturally as-pirated, all-motor.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Nope mate, 24 degrees forecast here Saturday :)  No air con coz “virtual racecar” ha ha.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Woo hoo so I am one happy camper, just got off the phone to the tuner.  Now a little back ground, so first tune from Willall was 470 rwhp, 1,000 rwNm.  and that was on E85.  The thing idled like a pig and back fired and generally unless on wot was pretty ordinary to drive.  I then gave another tuner a go, he said it made 508rwhP, and 1,050 rwNm, again still crap at anything other than wot.

So Stephen Bell has just finished doing a final street tune for me.  When it came in to him it was making 370 rwHP on the basic tune he did for me in my  shed when i changed injectors.  Also bear in mind its 40 degrees ambient in his work shop here in SA today, the cars NA and so he was very conservative.  And these numbers I trust are real.  So on 98 pulp, its made a genuine 480 rwHP, and still over 1,000Nm of torque on a very safe street tune.  So its making 110more hp than when I was driving it on the week end.  I pick it up tomorrow, can not wait to drive it now

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[pir4teParticipant Mallala640 HP hyper-cruising SS-V Flagonwagon View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 154]

Come on man, that’s all Max Torque at the wheels [uncorrected dyno rollers], don’t fall for that!

Check actual crank torque corrected 1:1 so we can see whatchu got 

What’s the engine torque the ECU is reporting at which RPM… 

Forget the wheel or crank HP we can work that out!

Naturally as-pirated, all-motor.

[pir4teParticipant Mallala640 HP hyper-cruising SS-V Flagonwagon View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 154]

Let’s see the actual engine torque curve, please, so we can benchmark yoir setup.

Naturally as-pirated, all-motor.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

What the dyno says and what the car does are VERY different.

Its just a tuning tool

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea, all that. I have said all along, dyno numbers mean nothing.  Not one person who has ever been in this car have not looked at me after a stab of the throttle and not said FUCK.  From guys who know nothing about cars to guys who themselves run 7s dragsters. Dont care, its all about area under tthe curve. This car makes 80% of max torque at 2000 rpm, if you dont understand that i give up and frankly don’t care. Its a genuine street legal car. May not post the dyno sheet, why does it matter?

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

VRSenator065 wrote:

Yea, all that. I have said all along, dyno numbers mean nothing. Not one person who has ever been in this car have not looked at me after a stab of the throttle and not said FUCK. From guys who know nothing about cars to guys who themselves run 7s dragsters. Dont care, its all about area under tthe curve. This car makes 80% of max torque at 2000 rpm, if you dont understand that i give up and frankly don’t care. Its a genuine street legal car. May not post the dyno sheet, why does it matter?

Nail on the head there. Too many people get caught up in those numbers

I bet if you told some rookie  “oh it makes 280rwkw” he would laugh” then go for a drive and it powerskids like champ and he goes “fuck mine doesn’t do that”…

Engine dyno (can you get that being crate motor)? and moroso are better indicators of power

 

 

[pir4teParticipant Mallala640 HP hyper-cruising SS-V Flagonwagon View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 154]

cava454 wrote:

VRSenator065 wrote:

Yea, all that. I have said all along, dyno numbers mean nothing. Not one person who has ever been in this car have not looked at me after a stab of the throttle and not said FUCK. From guys who know nothing about cars to guys who themselves run 7s dragsters. Dont care, its all about area under tthe curve. This car makes 80% of max torque at 2000 rpm, if you dont understand that i give up and frankly don’t care. Its a genuine street legal car. May not post the dyno sheet, why does it matter?

Engine dyno (can you get that being crate motor)? and moroso are better indicators of power

Guys the one thing a dyno does measure properly is torque, the one thing the ECU needs to do its job is accurate torque reporting.

Personally kW don’t matter, they are always an educated guess. Whereas you can rely on 1:1 non multiplied torque data from either source when plotted against RPM and do several crosschecks for realistic BMEP range given compression, fuel or airflow readings, baro, etc.

I agree it is a tuning tool, and yes it is possible to produce 1000Nm from a 454, just asking (sorry for appearing rude) for more detail please, like where is the peak torque in the range and does it ramp or drop off differently to a small block 

Naturally as-pirated, all-motor.

[sands vsParticipant vs commodore View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 619]

So with the new tune hows it idle and whats it like with the latest tune, is it idling well and not backfiring?

 

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Sorry guys been caught up in a family health issue, so no focus on the car, haven’t got it from the tuner yet.  Once things settle down a bit I will have a better read of the posts above and respond.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

 

OK, been a hell of a week, but looks like its on the mend, so finally have a chance to reply.

pir4te wrote:

Guys the one thing a dyno does measure properly is torque, ……. Personally kW don’t matter, they are always an educated guess.

This statement catches my eye.  Bear in mind I am not “Mr Dyno”  But I am qualified in mechanical engineering.  Power is directionally proportional to torque times rpm. In fact the exact equation is ;

P (kW) = [T(Nm) x w (rpm)] / 9549.

So if a dyno measures torque accurately, and it also measures rpm accurately, you must them be able to measure power accurately.  Its the laws of physics, it just is an undeniable truth.

I think maybe the issue here is I have quoted rwNm.  Its probably a bit lazy, its really tractive effort.  And that’s NOT engine torque.  You cant change power, but you sure as hell can change torque at the wheels.  That’s what the gearbox ratios do, the diff ratio, then the diameter of the tyres.  Thats that seat of the pants feeling you get when you stick those 3.9s in the diff.  Torque is a twisting force after all. So if I change to 4.11 gears in my diff from the current 3.55s the torque the dyno would see at the rear wheels would be simply 4.11/3.55 = 1.16x more.  Again that’s just physics.

But at the end of the day it all doesn’t matter to me anyway. A dyno is a very good comparative tuning tool, nothing more, nothing less.  Its a tool in which a load can be applied to a rolling road to somewhat approximate actual driving.  But its just a tool.  Its just another thing a real “tuner” has in his arsenal.  Personally Pirate, and not myself wanting to arc any one up, I think people sometimes get to caught up in the reporting and diagnostics within the ECU.  Its only as good as the sensors, software, can be prone to hysteresis issues, and non linearity issues.  I think the tuning and reporting within the ECU is again just another piece of the puzzle, but not the whole one.

Area under the curve is the best graphical way of showing why two cars with identical peak power figures can feel and drive so totally and completely different.  I don’t have the link on me but look it up, its a great way to visualize whats going on.

What can not be denied is that my car produces approximately 80% of its peak value torque at 2,000 rpm.  I know this is true.  And that’s why it turns tires off idle with virtually no throttle input.  Am I able to put all that power and torque to the ground on the street? no way.  Will I be able to on the strip?, not sure, probably not.  But I know this.

Its at times fucking scary, its always very impressive (to me anyway), and also a whole lot of fun.  And most importantly to me, its exactly what I wanted and had in mind when I built the car.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Praise the lord. DO A FARKING SKID!!!

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

First official cruise done and dusted. Displayed at Glenelg for a few hours, then a 100km cruise up through the hills, and back to Playford oval for the final display. Car ran flawlessly and picked up an award for best VIP entrant as well. Just an awesome day

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